i give it week

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Here Here!!!
"Conor" wrote in message

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

I have taken to posting back with the red-letter warning they all breezed by in their hurry to get a new toy (attached). Of course it is already too late but there is still some sense of poetic justice and all.
"Conor" wrote in message

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

begin 666 Vista disclaimer.txt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` ` end

The result is like "compound interest" - many have "killed" their XP installations via Vista installs and are now posting to newsgroups on how to get XP back running.
"Michael Bryett" wrote in message

Here Here!!!
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message

Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

The issue with older drivers is that MS is finally getting drivers out of kernel mode and into user mode. This should cut way down on BSOD's.
"Michael" wrote in message

Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message

Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message

It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message

I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

And if all the so called clueless give up then all that will be running the beta is the satisfied with their limited running installations and in that case who's going to be sending in tons of bug reports? Sorry but that's why MS made this such a wide beta (ie public).

Hear, hear!
"Michael Bryett" wrote in message

Here Here!!!
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message

What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.

Only a week, huh? If only we were so lucky...

I agree. They had to blow right past a red-letter warning, very plainly worded, in their rush to get the new toy. Sadly they have little interest in beta testing, just in getting to play with the new toy. They are getting more help here than they deserve by a long shot.
"AJR" wrote in message

Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

In article , AJR says...

Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
Yup. You merely have to look at how many "My hardware device isn't

supported" posts too to see how many haven't actually researched it at all.
I was lucky. After some hunting around before installation, out of all of my hardware, only the scanner on my Epson CX5400 doesn't work yet strangely it did when I tried an XP to Vista upgrade instead of a fresh install.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Not so strange. Perhaps it just means that once installed the driver would work. The driver installer was probably version checking or something in the clean install scenario but since the driver was already installed in XP the installer wasn't a factor in the upgrade scenario.
"Conor" wrote in message

In article , AJR says... Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
Yup. You merely have to look at how many "My hardware device isn't supported" posts too to see how many haven't actually researched it at all.
I was lucky. After some hunting around before installation, out of all of my hardware, only the scanner on my Epson CX5400 doesn't work yet strangely it did when I tried an XP to Vista upgrade instead of a fresh install.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Agreed.
But.....
We actually need folks like this. The, dare I say, average user who may not be as familiar with testing betas, etc. as some of us. Believe it or not, the less technically minded will often stumble across problems we in our ivory towers might not even deign to notice. :P
No offense, it just gets my goat a bit (wait, I have a goat?) when folks are putting people down. They're not all bad you know. heh :)
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "AJR" wrote in message

Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

But the only testing some of them are doing is demonstrating that red-letter warnings are insufficient to prevent this chaos in their lives. Such users may be useful when the RC1 is released, but they are not the ones listed on the download page for whom this beta release is designed.
This has not been advertised as a Consumer preview. It has been advertised as a Customer preveiw with the three classes of customers spelled out. The Windows Vista Customer Preview Page puts it this way (red-letters):
"Note: This is beta code and should not be used in a production environment or on a main machine in the home. Beta 2 is intended for developers, IT professionals and technology experts to continue or begin their testing of Windows Vista. Before you decide to use Beta 2, you should feel comfortable with installing operating systems, updating drivers, and general PC troubleshooting."
I agree with your sentiment and the need for gentleness, but those complaining loudly about disaster to thier machines and their computing life failed to act responsibly from the start.
Perhaps MS failed to take into account just how much the computing public has changed since Whistler in 2000-2001. It seems to me the newbies know far less today than newbies did five years ago. This is probably one result of the success of bringing computing to Everyman.
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message

Agreed.
But.....
We actually need folks like this. The, dare I say, average user who may not be as familiar with testing betas, etc. as some of us. Believe it or not, the less technically minded will often stumble across problems we in our ivory towers might not even deign to notice. :P
No offense, it just gets my goat a bit (wait, I have a goat?) when folks are putting people down. They're not all bad you know. heh :)
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "AJR" wrote in message Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

In article , Ian M. Walker says...

Agreed.
But.....
We actually need folks like this. The, dare I say, average user who may not be as familiar with testing betas, etc. as some of us. Believe it or not, the less technically minded will often stumble across problems we in our ivory towers might not even deign to notice. :P
No offense, it just gets my goat a bit (wait, I have a goat?) when folks are putting people down. They're not all bad you know. heh :)
Trouble is that it is a waste of time because they don't get the idea

of what BETAs are all about so they get the problems and AT BEST post on a forum and only because they wonder why it doesn't work when it did in ex-pee instead of submitting reports or at worst just format and reinstall the old OS wholst mumbling on about it being a bag of shit.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

The toying is part of the testing - real user w/ various kinds of needs/understanding on their own machines; otherwise, testing could be completed in the labs. Michael
"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message

I agree. They had to blow right past a red-letter warning, very plainly worded, in their rush to get the new toy. Sadly they have little interest in beta testing, just in getting to play with the new toy. They are getting more help here than they deserve by a long shot.
"AJR" wrote in message Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

I repeat, it is not a Consumer preview.
"Michael" wrote in message

The toying is part of the testing - real user w/ various kinds of needs/understanding on their own machines; otherwise, testing could be completed in the labs. Michael
"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message I agree. They had to blow right past a red-letter warning, very plainly worded, in their rush to get the new toy. Sadly they have little interest in beta testing, just in getting to play with the new toy. They are getting more help here than they deserve by a long shot.
"AJR" wrote in message Ian - Conor's post may be considered "obnoxious" (by some readers) - but he speaks the truth in that many many "downloaders" ignore the oft-repeated warnings and suggestions regarding "Beta" software. The problem is further compounded by post after post regarding "getting back my XP".
"Ian M. Walker" wrote in message What an obnoxious thread to start.
You've got to love the human need for feeling right.
*sigh*
-- Ian M. Walker
http://www.IanMWalker.com
~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~ "Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
"Noozer" wrote in message

Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

In article , Larry Hodges says...

You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
Sorry but the content of many posts in these groups suggests otherwise.

-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

If you're talking about MY point, that's exactly what I'm saying. I get Vista and it is running fine on two of my machines (laptop and desktop).
It's NOT running on my production machine. That would be stupid!
Tom "Larry Hodges" wrote in message

You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
"Noozer" wrote in message Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

"AJR" wrote in message

The result is like "compound interest" - many have "killed" their XP installations via Vista installs and are now posting to newsgroups on how to get XP back running.

How stupid are people to do an Upgrade install from XP to Vista Beta??!!

I have a test box where I can install XP SP2 and then test the upgrade scenario. What is wrong with that?
"Brian Wescombe" wrote in message

"AJR" wrote in message The result is like "compound interest" - many have "killed" their XP installations via Vista installs and are now posting to newsgroups on how to get XP back running.
How stupid are people to do an Upgrade install from XP to Vista Beta??!!

"Conor" wrote in message

In article , Larry Hodges says... You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
Sorry but the content of many posts in these groups suggests otherwise.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

Good point. I especially love the posts complaining about "stupid nVidia" or something similar because they don't have release level drivers yet for Vista beta.

Yes, I was agreeing with you.
I run SCSI. I have x64 as my production OS on RAID 0. When I want to "test drive" Vista, I simply change the drive from which I want to boot in the SCSI bios when rebooting and boot to one of my other drives where Vista is installed. No dual boot, no mixing OSs, nice and clean. If I want to dump Vista, I simply format that drive from x64. Period.
Vista doesn't have RAID drivers yet and can't even see my array with my programming stuff installed, which is just fine by me. Any data I want to access from either OS (which is only test data really), I move to a 3rd drive that can be seen from either OS.
Any moron complaining about beta anything is...well...a moron.
Anybody that replaces/upgrades their day-to-day OS with Vista beta, then comes here to complain about it, is a moron.
Anybody that comes here to complain that Vista beta doesn't have release level video and sound drivers by third party venders is a moron.
Anybody that claims an application beta is the same as an OS beta is a moron and should stick to running Win98 or buy a Macintoy.
-Larry
"Tom Scales" wrote in message

If you're talking about MY point, that's exactly what I'm saying. I get Vista and it is running fine on two of my machines (laptop and desktop).
It's NOT running on my production machine. That would be stupid!
Tom "Larry Hodges" wrote in message You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
"Noozer" wrote in message Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

To which you can add the complaints about beta code not being optimized.
"Larry Hodges" wrote in message

Yes, I was agreeing with you.
I run SCSI. I have x64 as my production OS on RAID 0. When I want to "test drive" Vista, I simply change the drive from which I want to boot in the SCSI bios when rebooting and boot to one of my other drives where Vista is installed. No dual boot, no mixing OSs, nice and clean. If I want to dump Vista, I simply format that drive from x64. Period.
Vista doesn't have RAID drivers yet and can't even see my array with my programming stuff installed, which is just fine by me. Any data I want to access from either OS (which is only test data really), I move to a 3rd drive that can be seen from either OS.
Any moron complaining about beta anything is...well...a moron.
Anybody that replaces/upgrades their day-to-day OS with Vista beta, then comes here to complain about it, is a moron.
Anybody that comes here to complain that Vista beta doesn't have release level video and sound drivers by third party venders is a moron.
Anybody that claims an application beta is the same as an OS beta is a moron and should stick to running Win98 or buy a Macintoy.
-Larry
"Tom Scales" wrote in message If you're talking about MY point, that's exactly what I'm saying. I get Vista and it is running fine on two of my machines (laptop and desktop).
It's NOT running on my production machine. That would be stupid!
Tom "Larry Hodges" wrote in message You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
"Noozer" wrote in message Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

If you want your software tested and usefull feedback - error reporting tool style - you want it to run on as many machines as possible; it is your interest to be so! Now, you have corporate/business machines which are pretty much standard: on board most anything (video, sound), 1x60+ IDE HDD, LAN... etc. You can ask Dell to test it since the user on a corporate network is pretty much restricted to use whatever the sys adm allows. You have left the private/home users which have a variety of soft/hard setups (multiple OS's, home networks, multiple storage arrays etc); this is where you want to test if you release a public beta. Since you need as many error reports as possible <g>, you make sure at least most common hardware (audigy, nvidia, ati, intel raid etc) gets some support - nvidia already has Vista Beta drivers, for ex. This is where Vista Beta lacks preparation from the Vista team... makes it look more like a PR stunt aimed at convincing stock holders that Vista is almost there. Michael
"Larry Hodges" wrote in message

Yes, I was agreeing with you.
I run SCSI. I have x64 as my production OS on RAID 0. When I want to "test drive" Vista, I simply change the drive from which I want to boot in the SCSI bios when rebooting and boot to one of my other drives where Vista is installed. No dual boot, no mixing OSs, nice and clean. If I want to dump Vista, I simply format that drive from x64. Period.
Vista doesn't have RAID drivers yet and can't even see my array with my programming stuff installed, which is just fine by me. Any data I want to access from either OS (which is only test data really), I move to a 3rd drive that can be seen from either OS.
Any moron complaining about beta anything is...well...a moron.
Anybody that replaces/upgrades their day-to-day OS with Vista beta, then comes here to complain about it, is a moron.
Anybody that comes here to complain that Vista beta doesn't have release level video and sound drivers by third party venders is a moron.
Anybody that claims an application beta is the same as an OS beta is a moron and should stick to running Win98 or buy a Macintoy.
-Larry
"Tom Scales" wrote in message If you're talking about MY point, that's exactly what I'm saying. I get Vista and it is running fine on two of my machines (laptop and desktop).
It's NOT running on my production machine. That would be stupid!
Tom "Larry Hodges" wrote in message You're not getting his point. An OS is FAR more complex than an application. We all understand what beta means.
"Noozer" wrote in message Uhm... ya, they are.
All BETA means is "Not considered finish - use at your own risk." In other words, don't complain if it doesn't work. *DO* report any bugs/errors/etc. using the PROPER method.
If you have a problem with Vista, there should be an icon on your desktop to report the bugs to. This group is a self support group and you can't depend on getting fixes for bug reports posted here.
"Tom Scales" wrote in message I'm sorry but you don't make any sense. The 'standards' for a beta for an application couldn't possibly be the same as those for an operating system
"Michael" wrote in message It's about "beta" standards not about OS's; see "...who don't know what BETA means or entails..." in the thread. You're barking at the wrong tree :) Michael
"Tom Scales" wrote in message Which Google operating system are you talking about? Which Google product requires drivers?
"Michael" wrote in message Sure... see other Betas... from Google, for ex. Vista should make better use of older drivers since it's expensive for 3rd parties to update and certify drivers for products already developed and sold. Of course, on the other hand, older drivers don't run that efficiently on Vista. Michael
"Conor" wrote in message I give it a week before all the clueless bastards who don't know what BETA means or entails get pissed off and go back to XP.
I hope it isn't any longer than that.
-- Conor Grumpy Old Man Same Shit, Different Day.

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message

I have a test box where I can install XP SP2 and then test the upgrade scenario. What is wrong with that?

Sorry, I meant people doing Vista upgrade installs from their main/only XP system! Obviously using test systems is not at all stupid :-)

"Brian Wescombe" wrote in message
"AJR" wrote in message The result is like "compound interest" - many have "killed" their XP installations via Vista installs and are now posting to newsgroups on how to get XP back running.
How stupid are people to do an Upgrade install from XP to Vista Beta??!!